Uninstall Webmin & Virtualmin GPL before installing Virtualmin Pro?

Howdy A,

Upgrades from GPL using the installer have somewhat indeterminate results...it's kinda sorta mostly working in some circumstances, but it's still definitely an iffy proposition and almost entirely untested.

Some precautions:

If you already have domains, backup your /etc/webmin directory. Something might get eaten.

If you've been using anything other than our "standard" suite of packages (Postfix, Dovecot with Maildir spools, Procmail or postfix for delivery, I think are the most important ones), you'll want to backup those configurations too. Something will probably go weird after the installation, but it's hard to predict what--this is the primary reason upgrades from GPL aren't fully supported yet. There are just too many options for how to configure Virtualmin and all of the services it administers.

If any problems occur, we'll be happy to help straighten them out. But data loss can't be repaired if there isn't a backup. So backup anything that is important before the installation (I don't think there's any chance of us hurting your website data or mailspools or databases or anything like that, but better safe than sorry). If it's important, back it up. Of course, you've been backing up daily anyway, right? ;-)

Oh, yeah, I suspect the most common problem would come if you're using mbox mail spools. After the installation of Virtualmin Professional, user mailboxes will apparently be replaced with new empty ones--the old data should still be around, but now Dovecot is looking in a different place for it. Some other problems include services fighting over ports, if you're using vsftpd or Cyrus for FTP or POP/IMAP, respectively, they would need to be removed before installation or things will go wrong.

Hope this helps.

Hey A,

<i>
1st installation attempt: error-messaged out. Didn't finish installation. ***

*** I copied the installation messages into a txt file. If you are interested in reviewing my installation log, give me a holler and I'll email them to you. Might help you with your VmPro-upgrader for GPL version.
</i>

Yes, that would be helpful. I've done some basic testing with installs of GPL the way I do them...but the way I do them has always been so close to the way Virtualmin Professional does them, that I don't see the really ugly possible conflicts. Seeing other folks issues, and the way their systems are configured is a necessary step to being able to support some reasonable subset of existing installations.

<i>
Is it your recommendation that people don't install Webmin and Virtualmin GPL, if they intend to install Virtualmin Pro?
</i>

Yep. Having old (possibly very different) installations is just a problem to be worked around--there is no redeeming quality to a system that already has stuff configured. It'll always be a problem, as long as Virtualmin GPL can be configured in so many different ways. If your install of Virtualmin GPL happens to be identical to the way we install Virtualmin Professional, probably nothing will go wrong...but that's pretty unlikely to be the case. There are just too many variables.

That's why I'll be providing the same installer for Virtualmin GPL in the pretty near future. The goal is to get Virtualmin GPL installs always looking the same as, and always cleanly upgradeable to, Professional. No way to do that without insuring that GPL looks exactly the same as Professional (minus the Professional-only features). It'll also make installation and configuration of GPL a lot easier, which I've heard from a lot of folks is a major problem. For some reason the &quot;rebuild Apache&quot; step is the most frightening for most, despite actually being the easiest part of the picture (getting mail/spam/AV right is definitely the hardest, and we still have some problems with it).

<i>
Also... should we install Dovecot, Postfix etc. before VmPro installation? Or should we just leave it to VmPro installation to download &amp; install them?
</i>

The installer wants a fresh OS install. Anything more is asking for problems. Again, it's just a simple matter of being unable to predict what choices you made during installation and configuration. If we get to make the choices, the installation should go smoothly. If you've already made a bunch of choices, we're writing over your choices during installation...something is likely to not match up, because we only change things that need to change from defaults. So, if you changed to a different mail spool location from defaults, for example, we probably don't correct everything necessary during install.

As I mentioned, I'm working on making the installer more robust in the face of different systems (and the more OS platforms we support, the more this becomes a reality, even if by accident), but I suspect there will never be a time when a pre-existing system that is configured vastly different from our choices will come out of the installation process in perfect working order. The installer can't possibly be that smart (hell, I'm not that smart, and I can react to different situations and test the results in ways that the installation scripts can't reasonably do).

<i>
Your advice (maybe should include in Virtualmin FAQ section?) will give would-be VmPro users clear direction on how to avoid potential disasters.
</i>

I agree:

http://www.virtualmin.com/faq/one-faq?faq_id=1511#3357
http://www.virtualmin.com/faq/one-faq?faq_id=1511#5475

;-)

Possibly not as clear or as prominently placed as it should be, however. It ought to have a place in the Administrators guide in the installation section as well. The Administrators guide does say &quot;Start by installing your OS&quot;, but it doesn't say, &quot;If you've already got a running system, proceed with caution, for here there be dragons&quot; which it probably should.

Hi Joe,
I wonder (after reading the above horror details!) if this might not be the basis of all my problems.

My Server supplier originally installed Webmin on my Rentabox and I *think* Vmin GPL at the time. Then I upgraded to VminPro.

It may be then that my own ongoing horror story started! (Over a year ago now)?

I'm not mad keen on paying him for a complete reformat and OS install again, but *IF*, it looked like it could solve my long-term wait to get a workable system I would do it.

My options seem to be dwindling down to something like this or go back to CPanel.

I actually don't need Reseller options (Vmin)any more, I gave up, I can only see the Script Installer being useful for me *IF* I could ever get it to work.

Cheers?
Himagain

Hi there AH,
Thanks for the hope! :-)
Been a long, hard road for me so far, to try and get Vmin up and going.

I am strictly a User-type rather than Technical, but with a long experience of WHM/Cpanel *and* lousy Managed-Server Managers, so took the plunge and rented my own - unserviced! :-0

Have had high hopes for Webmin/Vmin especially with WEbmin's long history, to run things as directly as possible. Vmin seems like a dream - IF I can ever get it to go in my (NOW) very simple demands form.

SO........
Have just had the Server reloaded with Fedora 5 and a clean start.
Have asked Joe to re-install Vmin on the box for me last week (to make sure it is done ok) and will try again.

I keep going back to look at Joe's little demo movie of how easy it is to set up Domains..................

Cheers,
John