Everything's on sale! (AKA $99 Virtualmin and Cloudmin starting price)

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#1 Thu, 10/09/2014 - 16:22
Joe
Joe's picture

Everything's on sale! (AKA $99 Virtualmin and Cloudmin starting price)

Howdy all,

We've been talking about how to get more people using Virtualmin and Cloudmin, as that's always been our primary measure of success (which is why so much of what we build is free and Open Source). And, it seemed that the biggest single issue for many people is price. So, we're trying an experiment to see if a lower price across the board will allow more people to make use of Virtualmin Professional and Cloudmin Professional.

So, until the end of the year (and maybe longer, if this experiment works out), Virtualmin 10 and Cloudmin 10 are $99. That's $40 and $50 off of the price we've been charging for nearly the entire history of these products.

Also, as a thank you for being our customer at the old prices, we'll be giving away Cloudmin for Physical Servers to any existing Virtualmin Professional customers (those who bought Virtualmin at the previous price) who'd find it useful (i.e. if you have more than one Virtualmin server and would like to centrally manage them). And the price of that product for new users has dropped to $49.

Further, Cloudmin Services, our new product for Cloudmin Professional, will be available for free to existing Cloudmin Professional customers (those who bought at the previous prices) and will be available for purchase for new customers in the store soon, also at a lower price than we'd originally planned (I believe we're now planning to price it at $99). Cloudmin Services allows you to have central DNS, database, and other services for all of your Cloudmin/Virtualmin hosts. It's really cool, and a huge time saver.

Our sales always get slow at the end of the year, so this is a way to hopefully help us pay Eric a nice Christmas bonus, and still have some money to pay our salaries. And, heck, who knows...if things go well, and we find we make enough extra sales to make up for the lower price, maybe we'll keep these prices past the end of the year. So, tell somebody about the sale!

Cheers, Joe

Sun, 11/30/2014 - 10:48
cruiskeen

So -- how do I get the free Cloudmin for Virtual Servers license if I already hold Virtualmin licenses? I don't see any way to do it in the store?

Mon, 12/01/2014 - 10:50 (Reply to #2)
andreychek

Thanks for being a long-time Virtualmin customer! I've issued you a Cloudmin for Physical Servers license.

Feel free to let us know if you have any questions!

-Eric

Wed, 12/03/2014 - 18:40
dirtybird

As a VMpro user how do i get the free cloudmin pro license?

Wed, 12/03/2014 - 22:06 (Reply to #4)
andreychek

I've issued you a Cloudmin for Physical Systems license. Thanks for using Virtualmin!

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 02:31
fakemoth
fakemoth's picture

Me?

Don't take the name of root in vain...

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 09:04 (Reply to #6)
andreychek

I've issued you a Cloudmin for Physical Systems license. Thanks for using Virtualmin!

Wed, 12/17/2014 - 02:49
mpkossen

Awesome! I appreciate the new, lower prices and to show that appreciation, I've just put in an order for an annual 50 domain license.

After having been a VirtualMin user for a long, long time, I can now say that I'm thrilled to be using the Professional edition (and get all the benefits that come with it)!

Wed, 12/17/2014 - 10:34 (Reply to #8)
andreychek

Thanks, we appreciate it!

-Eric

Mon, 01/19/2015 - 11:41
Welshman
Welshman's picture

If you want to sell it, sell it for multiple domains on multiple servers.

Crock of gold waiting.

100 domains on as many servers as we like. Be a killer that.

100 domain limit etc or whatever. Take the lead.

You guys are in California and Jamie works for Google, do the code.

I cant charge clients 100 euro for a guy who wants a dedie, run one site and want wordpress installed automatically, even if he is a fool.

Is the opensource side of wm & vm a joke? In respect your just really into pro?

Getting sick of this crap, why not offer licenses for multiple servers?

Chaos Reigns Within, Reflect, Repent and Reboot, Order Shall Return.

Mon, 01/19/2015 - 22:23 (Reply to #10)
Joe
Joe's picture

"You guys are in California and Jamie works for Google, do the code."

I'm in Texas. Eric is in Pennsylvania. I lived in CA for a while soon after the company started, but moved back to Texas, partly due to real estate prices. Yes, Jamie is amazing, does live in California, and Google is extremely lucky to have him. I'd love for him to be able to work full-time on Virtualmin, Cloudmin, and Webmin, but we simply don't have the revenue to do it.

"Is the opensource side of wm & vm a joke?"

What do you mean?

There is no other side of Webmin. It is 100% Open Source and always will be.

And, we provide 95+% of Virtualmin for free to anyone under a very liberal license. What more do you expect of us? We've been working on this stuff for 15 (me), 16 (Jamie), and 10+ years (Eric). Often for no pay, just because we like working on Open Source software and helping people. I'm genuinely baffled at what more we could be doing to make you happy and not consider it a joke? Virtualmin GPL is feature-comparable to both of our major proprietary competitors, and tens of thousands of people use it every day.

Honestly, we have probably made too much of Virtualmin available for free...our sales peaked a few years ago, before we merged several of the big features from Professional down into GPL, and while growth of users has been steady and even increasing, sales have been in decline. So, for us, more uses means more support requests, more bug reports, from more users, for less money. We're like the underpants gnomes...we haven't figured out what the ??? step that comes before "profit!" entails.

Webmin saw 3 million downloads last year; its biggest year ever, and we don't expect it to decline in 2015. Virtualmin is managing tens of thousands of servers...maybe over 100,000, and definitely more than at any point in history. But, and this is a big but, only a tiny percentage are using Virtualmin Professional.

I never complain about that balance of usage here on our site (until now), because it's not my primary goal in working on Virtualmin to make a ton of money; but, seriously, it's incredibly frustrating to have been doing this for so long, for so little, and to have it dismissed so readily or have it suggested we're greedy for not giving more away.

I'm happy to have Webmin used by something on the order of a million people (hard to say with precision, since we can never know how many downloads happen outside of the SF.net servers). That's amazing. I'm not complaining about it.

And, I'm happy to have Virtualmin GPL used on something on the order of a 100,000 servers (again, hard to guess at precise numbers, but this is not an unreasonable guess based on numbers we can confirm).

I'd like it if more folks found enough extra value in Virtualmin Professional to pay for it. And, we're always trying to find ways to make Professional worth paying for without harming the experience of GPL users...we genuinely want Virtualmin GPL to be a quality tool that works as well as any commercial competitor. And, we want to make enough sales to keep doing what we do, or more of what we do, preferably.

Maybe in the new year, with two great new themes (Ilia's Authentic theme and my Bootstrap theme), a new Drupal 7 website with a better shop and the ability to pay month-to-month, and a new Webmin 2.x branch that will deprecate a lot of old stuff and reduce complexity some to improve ease of use, we'll see an influx of new users, hopefully some with a little disposable income to spend on a supported product with a few extra features.

I'm sorry you're unhappy with the way we're doing it. We're genuinely doing the best we can, with the people and skills and time we have available.

We do welcome help. The Webmin wiki has been recently migrated to MediaWiki (by me), and the docs there need a lot of attention, and I know you have experience enough to be helpful there. I always welcome help on the theme I'm working on (it's in our public github at https://github.com/virtualmin/virtualmin-bootstrap-theme ). I've reached out to some friends of Virtualmin who have more experience with Drupal than I; hoping that'll make the transition to Drupal 7 easier/quicker. We're working on modernizing Webmin's codebase, which is a long, hard, tedious slog...a half million lines of Perl of varying ages and quality.

And, if you have better ideas for making Virtualmin profitable, we'd love to hear it. But, I'm afraid selling half as many licenses won't solve our fiscal problems (I've done the math on multi-server licenses...they'd either have to be quite expensive, or we'd take a huge revenue hit; currently, most of our users have multiple licenses...a multi-server license would simply mean they'd purchase fewer licenses, possibly a lot fewer).

--

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Sat, 02/28/2015 - 13:53 (Reply to #11)
lolbrol

Why don't you ask the gpl users for a donation. After the setup wizzard and on the system information page with an option to remove the message in the module config. Piwik.org does it this way. It isn't even annoying. They aren't a charity either. Even ubuntu asks a donation on the download page. At the moment you're giving one of the best host panels away for free. Even your support is outstanding. The documentation is great and the answer of andreychek and others already helped me out a lot. The licences are too expesive for me and I don't need the features. But donating a few dollars a year, why not!? There are probably a lot of people in the same situation.

Beside that, do people even know that their is a pro version and why it is really worth buying? If I login on my control panel I see only one page mentioning the pro version and that is the pro activation page.

Mon, 01/19/2015 - 11:44
Welshman
Welshman's picture

I mean, what does it matter what server it is on?

Also upgrade you websites, geez getting embarrissing pointing clients here, pretty sure you have some money to spend.

You just seem to be thinking your end at the moment.

Chaos Reigns Within, Reflect, Repent and Reboot, Order Shall Return.

Mon, 01/19/2015 - 17:00 (Reply to #13)
Joe
Joe's picture

Also upgrade you websites, geez getting embarrissing pointing clients here, pretty sure you have some money to spend.

I wish we did have money to throw at the website problem. But, we don't. We're three guys, all of whom have other sources of income to make ends meet.

I'm working on a migration to Drupal 7 right now. I don't know exactly how long it'll take...it's like moving to a whole new CMS, effectively, since there is no in-place upgrade (I'm really disliking Drupal for this fact).

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Mon, 01/19/2015 - 13:51
fakemoth
fakemoth's picture

I agree with Welshdude. Though think I saw a goat once, writing politer posts than his... Also offtopic...

Don't take the name of root in vain...

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 13:15
Welshman
Welshman's picture

Actually I do apologise.

Rough day.

Thanks for what you do and all your fast support.

Real bad day and should not have vented here.

Chaos Reigns Within, Reflect, Repent and Reboot, Order Shall Return.

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 00:45
tpnsolutions
tpnsolutions's picture

Hi,

Just my two cents on the topic.

I'm right there with Joe on point with regards to the feedback, and state of things. Honestly, I've been working with Webmin and later Virtualmin for around a decade now and have seen the transitioning phases of development, growth within the company and know that these guys don't just "talk the talk", they do truly "walk the walk".

Running a successful project like this with the numbers they reach normally takes dozens if not more active users to make possible. Yet, aside from a lot of community support for which I know everyone is happy there is (Jamie, Joe, Eric, and the people who need the help), there is really only 3 people doing the core of the work.

I speak from first hand experience having personally assisted dozens of users over the past year that there is only so much time in a day. Noting that Jamie, Joe and Eric put in way more time than I do on the topic of support, topping it off with on-going development which sees a product release often as frequently as every month is absolutely amazing!

My small contribution toward this community has been met with praise from all sources including and definitely not limited to Jamie, Joe and Eric which speaks to where their heads are at in terms of appreciation and wanting to give back. It's for that reason that I have come to respect these fine folks greatly.

All said and done, we understand your frustration and Joe's point on sharing other ways they can make the products and services profitable is once again his way of say "I'm listening, and want your feedback".

But, a rule I learned long ago which I feel applies here today is, "Don't Bring Up a Problem Unless You Have a Proposed Solution".

This is something I share with customers when they simply complain. That is, I'm not opposed to change, but put yourself in my shoes is what I tell them... "If there's a better way something can be done please let me know so everyone can benefit".

Jamie/Joe/Eric, all I can say is keep up the amazing work!

*** take whatever you can from negative feedback and use it toward building a positive solution ***


Best Regards,
Peter Knowles
TPN Solutions

Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com
Phone: 604-782-9342
Skype: tpnsupport
Website: http://www.tpnsolutions.com


Ask me about my new support plans which include a FREE copy of Virtualmin Pro!!!

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles | TPN Solutions
Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com | Skype: tpnassist
Tue, 01/20/2015 - 02:34
fakemoth
fakemoth's picture

Whoa, the Welshdude really got to you :)

Don't worry though, I still love you guys :)

But. I for myself (leave the other things he mentioned aside) still feel this so Oracleish and Windowish and VMwareish for you to sell Virtualmin licences linked to a server. This is bullshit and I always said it (searched my older posts, can't find 'em... whatever, maybe were support tickets) at least because you are selling CLOUD/HOSTING products.

I remember that everytime I have to migrate the domains and preparing a new server, and I have 2 servers running with the same license, one of them gets the red message, usually the one still in production. Just an example.

This is not "love" for your users who should be able to move domains all over the place, between physical, and virtual machines also, into a predefined number of domains - please explain how will that ruin you income, I don't get it...

But I can explain to you how this is ruining my love for you: I am now to add 5 more servers, 2 for virtualmin; and I have to come up with some kind of a stupid scheme about how to fracture the number of domains for each server and also allow growth on each of them; why is that once again? Just another example. And of course I am joking - still love ya!

So: I AGREE TO PAY MORE JUST NOT TO WORRY ABOUT THIS STUFF - there I said it.

Of course I will still use your products no matter what decision you are taking here. Because it is in your right to conduct business as you see fit, and you should always do so. And BTW I don't think you are greedy, or some corporate monsters, or that you are not true to Open Source, none of that.

As for the monthly payments - I for myself am not interested in that at all. Marketing and eye-candyness is what you are lacking. Also get on the social networks, even if you hate them. If you ask me, Webmin&Co products are being kept as "the little dirty admin secret" by everyone. And until you make a huge boom out of them, it will remain exactly the same.

Cheers. And just think about it, if there is a problem with your licensing scheme, it is the Virtualmin one.

Don't take the name of root in vain...

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 12:18 (Reply to #18)
Joe
Joe's picture

I, too, occasionally have bad days. Welshdude caught me when I was wearing my grumpy pants. ;-)

I took a walk and thought more about it last night, and we'll give something along those lines (i.e. Virtualmin for up to X domains on Y virtual machines", or similar) a try when the new website goes live. It will take some changes to our license manager, so there will need to be some code written, so it's not something I can just "turn on". And, I will need to do math to figure out what we need to charge for such a creature. We've wanted to offer virtual machine license pricing for a while, but the problems of detecting virtual machines, and the fact that some virtual machines are more powerful than some dedicated servers, proved difficult.

The reason all those companies do per-server (and even per-CPU or per-core) pricing is that it's historically a useful proxy for value. Someone doing enough work to need to run the application on a dozen servers with multiple 8 core CPUs each is getting a lot more value out of it than someone running it on one server with a single dual core CPU, and will be likely to require more support over the long haul. It's not guaranteed to be a correct proxy for those things...but, it's hard to come up with better proxy for that information than the combo we have now, which is # domains + # servers.

We have always wanted prices to be fair and affordable, especially for hobbyists and people just getting started with hosting their own stuff, but high enough to get us paid enough to be able to pay for stuff like design assets, colo space and bandwidth, and keep our salary high enough to where we can devote significant time to the project. We're not being stubborn, just trying to work out how to make it work. We don't want to commit to something that will end up not working out for some reason.

But, I can see a multi-server license being workable. We'll obviously have to charge more...probably about twice what a current license costs for the same number of domains (on the, I think, fair assumption that Virtualmin on multiple servers will incur more support and resource usage), but it'll end up being far cheaper than, say, five or ten Virtualmin 10 licenses for five or ten servers.

Does that seem like a reasonable direction?

--

Check out the forum guidelines!

Wed, 01/21/2015 - 01:00 (Reply to #19)
mpkossen

I personally think that combining a month-to-month licensing model and a multi-server domain limit could considerably increase your revenue. I'd have said this for month-to-month license alone, but multi-server licenses would make Virtualmin Pro an even more powerful product to use in larger/more professional environments.

In the day and age where VPS are taking the lead over dedicated servers more and more, I can honestly imagine someone spreading his 100 customers across 10 VPS for the sole purpose of segregation, resource control, and maintenance purposes. Paying about twice the price of a 100-slot license where that person would have otherwise needed 10x 10-slot licenses is a small price to pay, whereas that person would have probably thought twice about this setup when he or she would have had to buy those 10 licenses.

Just my 2 cents :-)

Tue, 01/20/2015 - 13:05
Welshman
Welshman's picture

Geez :) I live in France and if you don't complain you will get no where.

That's sounds superb and a leading of the way.

I do apologise for kicking up a fuss but hey :)

I so much want to buy the Pro version, probably 500 domains etc, the infinite would be nice but you will will have abuse issues I guess to deal with.

Sounds great Joe and a move forward.

A lot of us don't mind paying for a great system, I just use the gpl at the moment mainly because of the one license one server thing

I am sure there are so many people who will stop using gpl and go Pro and pay for it? Must be a good thing.

Brilliant Joe.

Chaos Reigns Within, Reflect, Repent and Reboot, Order Shall Return.

Wed, 01/21/2015 - 01:36
fakemoth
fakemoth's picture

Always nice of you, listening to your customers.

mpkossen nailed it (except don't really double the prices and that I for myself will never buy a month to month "something"- just too much to worry and forget about, and the ugly feeling you are leaking money even if in fact might be cheaper).

We have to be able to split the number of domains as we see fit between servers for tehnical reasons: migrations, somekind of balancing - between ones machines or between multiple providers in the cloud, reinstalling the OS/upgrading the OS/going for another distro, resource issues, and so on.

I am interested spliting between my physical servers and I don't think you should worry about differences between physical or virtual, or the number of CPUs and stuff. Simple schema, just count the domains, nothing else, start with current prices, see how it goes for you as it is clear your clients will be happy:

10 domains - xx$/year 50 domains - xx$/year 100 domains - xx$/year so on.

Because I will do that neverthless, anyway, forced but what we mentioned here - I think you have on a regular basis requests for splitting/merging licenses. At least I will issue one soon :) So this is a waste of your time.

Also the support requests I don't think it will grow THAT much: people usually use and trust a small set of technologies and configurations, and it is best practice and common sense to reproduce one if it works fine for you.

Thanks for considering this.

Don't take the name of root in vain...

Wed, 01/21/2015 - 01:44
fakemoth
fakemoth's picture

Ahhh, start a poll, one time voting between your current and the "per domain/no matter how many servers" schemes for a couple of months - for your registered users!

Don't take the name of root in vain...

Wed, 01/21/2015 - 03:38
tpnsolutions
tpnsolutions's picture

Hi,

It may be interesting, and possible if say you issue a "100 domain license" and when you enter the license into a server it'd give you the option to choose how many domains to allocate to that server...

Next time you enter the same license onto another node it'd then remember how many were delegated to the former node and only allow you to delegate a maximum of the remaining domains to that server.

If at a later date you decide to decrease the domain count on one node, it'd give back those domains to be delegated to another node.

This model would allow for a pricing schema which still requires someone to purchase X amount of domains per license per year, but then distribute the domains over multiple nodes.

Dealing with more support would be the only tricky part in terms of making the price affordable yet still profitable enough to warrant offering multi-node support.

One idea might be to offer a base license for "node #1" then an upgrade price for "node #2", "node #3" onward with perhaps a decreasing pricing scale as you add more nodes where the more nodes license, the less you pay within a given domain license tier. More money for Virtualmin Inc, but a price that offers greater value to the end user.

In our VoIP business with large clients we offer a sliding scale for the purchase of key resources based on the volume a company commits to.

Cheers!

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles
TPN Solutions

Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com
Phone: 604-782-9342
Skype: tpnsupport
Website: http://www.tpnsolutions.com

Ask me about my new support plans which include a FREE copy of Virtualmin Pro!!!

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles | TPN Solutions
Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com | Skype: tpnassist
Tue, 01/27/2015 - 21:13
LucR

I am small and hobbyist-like, but help out close friends and family with web hosting setup, etc. It would be great to slowly grow a small client-base to help offset costs. For someone like me (not intending to grow too large really, but you never know), having the ability to spread/split my Virtualmin pro domains between even just 2 servers makes or breaks the deal. Here's why:

  • I cannot justify doubling (or more) my purchase/upgrade costs just to split to 2 or more servers.

  • I would not dream of running just one Virtualmin server - no redundancy and no quick ROS if something bad goes wrong (read, if I screw something up).

  • I would not dream of using the GPL version for a paying customer. I realize that works for many, but for me it would be like walking a tight rope with no safety net. For me, the pro features are necessary.

So likely, I would not renew my Virtualmin pro license (I know, big spender of 10 domains) because I am concerned about moving forward with attracting a few "real", paying clients. If I had the safety net (spread domains across 2 or more servers) w/o doubling up-front and ongoing cost, I would be willing to stick with Virtualmin pro indefinitely. Then, as the client-base goes up the money I pay for Virtualmin would scale up as well. If it goes down temporarily, it won't matter because the base/entry-level cost would be so low.

Maybe there are more like me - pinching every dollar. But if the licensing could scale with me better, I'd stick around indefinitely, and devote more of myself learning the ins/outs of the product.

As far as tickets, one or 10 installs of Virtualmin I don't think will make much difference. It would seem after one successful install/running the server, it is more/less cookie cutter at that point. I would even be willing to give up tickets e.g. have a ticket quota to help manage your costs with the benefit to me of being a lower foot-in the door/ongoing cost, and installing on more than 1 server. Hopefully, more customers would say they'd agree to that.

Thanks, you guys, for a great product suite. I've been a long-time Webmin user for years and years. Love it.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 00:35 (Reply to #25)
mpkossen

I don't think they're changing the existing license structure, but rather adding some options to it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It should be a choice whether you'd like to spread the domains across servers or now. It'd be a bit strange if existing customers would be "hit" by this move which is mostly being made to attract new customers.

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 02:15 (Reply to #26)
LucR

What I'm looking for is a lower multi-server (Pro) entry price point - something a bit lower than buying 2 10 domain licenses. Maybe a 5 domain multi-server. The higher-end multi-server options that I think Joe was getting at would also make sense.

Tue, 01/27/2015 - 21:43
Purple Edge

I'm about to set up my first "unmanaged" vps and have been hunting around for a control panel. Having used cpanel for the past 15 years, it was almost a done deal, but I was looking for options that might be less expensive.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday evaluating the list here... http://www.hostingadvice.com/blog/cpanel-vs-plesk-vs-webpanel/ ... and was tempted by CentosWP, but still leaning towards cpanel.

Today I was looking at the specks offered by a hosting company ... http://www.mammoth.net.au/add-ons/panels ...and for the first time I came across Virtualmin. So it has taken me a while to find you!

Most of the other products I looked at seemed to have few users, and limited on-going development, so you are two steps up on them already.

Anyway, back to the topic... First of all cpanel is $200 per year for a vps with unlimited domains, and a lot less if it is supplied by the vps host, so I think you need to update your comparison page.

Secondly, it's great that you have the GPL version which sounds like it will suit me because the add-ons in the pro version seem more tailored to a reseller host. But at $99 for the first year and less in subsequent years I am definitely tempted.

Third, if you've got that many downloads of the gpl version then you need to do some research with those users as to why they are not converting to pro and how many domains they're hosting.

Apart from the suggestions above, which seem to be coming from resellers (?) where the bulk pricing suggestions make sense, you could think about removing features from the GPL version - eg give it a 5, or 10 domain limit so that it really becomes a trial version, though still fully functional.

And make the $99 version unlimited domains on one server. To be honest, the 10 domain limit on the $99 version is a real turn-off for me, when I can get unlimited cpanel for a little bit more. I know that I will probably never exceed 10 domains - because of my hosting limitations, it is just a psychological barrier!

I'll give the gpl version a try - if the pro version was $30 I would already have bought it!

Here's another idea...

$30 per year 10 domains on one server $99 per year unlimited domains on one server ... $whatever unlimited domains on unlimited servers

No idea what your current sales by product breakdown is, but you could easily analyse to see where your customers are coming from. I don't understand the incremental per domain licencing, it seems to make you very expensive compared to cpanel? If you have such a large user base for the GPL version, and you can get 10% of them to purchase the $30/10 domain licence then I think you'd say goodbye to your income problems?

BTW, it is very hard to find your subsequent pricing, can I suggest you make some reference to it on your catalog page - http://www.virtualmin.com/catalog/19

Wed, 01/28/2015 - 03:14
tpnsolutions
tpnsolutions's picture

Hi,

If anyone is looking for some options in the immediate future in terms of licensing, I may have an option that can be offered right away.

I'd be willing to offer those in need a "per-month" rate on Virtualmin Pro with a certain domain limit, and because I've been working closely with the "min" team I'm pretty sure we can likely create some short term work around to try and make it work as closely as may be needed.

Remember though, this is a two way deal so while I will make an absolute attempt at working with folks to meet their immediate needs, I do ask you understand that it may not be 100% what you are hoping for... But I'll do my best.

Drop me a line on Skype or email me to discuss this topic in greater detail.

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles
TPN Solutions

Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com
Phone: 604-782-9342
Skype: tpnsupport
Website: http://www.tpnsolutions.com

Ask me about my new support plans which include a FREE copy of Virtualmin Pro!!!

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles | TPN Solutions
Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com | Skype: tpnassist
Wed, 01/28/2015 - 13:00
Welshman
Welshman's picture

Geez.

Chaos Reigns Within, Reflect, Repent and Reboot, Order Shall Return.

Thu, 01/29/2015 - 03:07
fakemoth
fakemoth's picture

Dudes, please stop the sales pitch, the nonsense comparison with cPanel because no one here gives a sh.. on that software, and also the useless monthly payments...

The thread was hijacked anyways - it was about an offer... But we all agree there is only one extra step the *min team should take: let us spread the domains, and that's it.

Also I think they got the message, don't you?

Don't take the name of root in vain...

Fri, 01/30/2015 - 23:30 (Reply to #31)
tpnsolutions
tpnsolutions's picture

Hi,

I was merely offering a short term solution for those who actually wanted an option, despite as you acknowledge the thread was started already offering a great deal. So I guess in retrospect there really is not pleasing some.

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles
TPN Solutions

Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com
Phone: 604-782-9342
Skype: tpnsupport
Website: http://www.tpnsolutions.com

Ask me about my new support plans which include a FREE copy of Virtualmin Pro!!!

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles | TPN Solutions
Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com | Skype: tpnassist
Fri, 01/30/2015 - 13:42
Welshman
Welshman's picture

:) agreed, end of.

Chaos Reigns Within, Reflect, Repent and Reboot, Order Shall Return.

Tue, 02/03/2015 - 10:17
impire

Hi Joe,

Existing customer. Could I get a license for Cloudmin to try it out?

I am still confused about how Cloudmin is differ from Virtualmin. Read description and all but still don't know exactly how it works.

Another question. Can either Cloudmin or Virtualmin run on Google Cloud?

Tue, 02/03/2015 - 11:12 (Reply to #34)
andreychek

Howdy,

Thanks for your interest in Cloudmin!

Since we have a fairly long thread here already, could you start a new one where we can go over your questions? Since you're a Virtualmin Pro customer, you're welcome to open a support request using the "Support" link above if you want, or you could ask your questions in the Forums if you like.

Thanks!

-Eric

Sun, 03/01/2015 - 09:51
Shirehosting

Pro user here as well, Can I get a Cloudmin license please. Thanks Eric.

Also, I been reading this thread with interest, and most will not like what I'm going to say. Whilst I don't have any issues with the current pricing arrangements with VM ( I think its cheap). As I business owner I understand one thing very clearly, that is business is a 2 ways street. If the VM team cant make enough money to feed themselves at some stage they are no longer going to be around at that point I will no longer have the required products to make my money and then I will no longer be around.

Now before someone says I can use x or y product, Yes I am aware but the same issues effect these products as well. A company making no money wont be round long.

So besides the x domains on any number of servers mentioned above (good idea). I also think something you should seriously consider is a flat rate price to use the gpl version. $5 , $10 insert your number here once off for a life time. So what if VM gpl goes from 1 million servers to 10000 because a) you wont have to support 1 million winging customers on the forums and b) you will be making a better income.

Because a non paying customer is not a customer :-)

Regards Michael

Mon, 03/02/2015 - 09:49 (Reply to #36)
andreychek

License issued, thanks!

Mon, 03/02/2015 - 18:52 (Reply to #37)
Shirehosting

Thanks Eric

Tue, 03/03/2015 - 06:21
jimdunn

Existing customer. Could I get a license for Cloudmin to try it out?

Tue, 03/03/2015 - 08:52 (Reply to #39)
andreychek

Sure thing, all set!

Sat, 03/07/2015 - 08:54
mpkossen

May I ask if there's been made a decision yet on the Virtualmin-side about a new/additional licensing structure?

Sat, 03/07/2015 - 20:31 (Reply to #41)
Joe
Joe's picture

Most of the stuff we discussed will need to wait until we've migrated to the new Drupal 7 site, I think, to make it work...the current shop is extremely limited.

Which particular license change were you interested in? Just adding a 5 domain license for, say, $50 to the shop would be possible, but the ability to split a set of domains across multiple servers is not feasible without a new shopping cart implementation and a new license manager implementation (both on our server and within Virtualmin).

And, I haven't actually implemented any of it yet, even though I am in the process of migrating us over. I'm planning to get the site functioning roughly at the current level in Drupal 7 and then begin adding new features, like month-to-month licenses, and splittable licenses.

--

Check out the forum guidelines!

Sun, 03/08/2015 - 03:22 (Reply to #42)
mpkossen

I am most interested in splitting a set of domains across servers, but I understand that's the hardest one to implement.

A 5-domain license would definitely appeal to me and probably to others that want to start with a small number of domains on a server. It would also introduce the ability to basically split the 10-domain license, since two 5-domain licenses would cost roughly the same as a single 10-domain license.

Then again, I wouldn't want you to introduce it if it's not feasible, though. The 10-domain license is already priced very competitively for what it can do and I'm sure that any future licensing plans will cover the needs described in this thread.

Finally, thank you for investing time in Virtualmin and a better website.

Tue, 03/17/2015 - 11:57 (Reply to #43)
tpnsolutions
tpnsolutions's picture

Hi,

Just thought I'd chime in on your question to offer a potential solution.

I may be able to offer you smaller licenses or a split license to work across multiple servers depending on your needs, and even more interestingly enough at a slightly lower price than what you'd get directly from here due to my buying discount with the Virtualmin folks.

Please feel free to drop me a line on Skype to discuss potential options.

Ex. I recently saved a client over 15% toward a Cloudmin Pro license with the cost being split over 3-months, something that obviously isn't directly possible from Virtualmin.com due to the way licenses are currently setup.

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles
TPN Solutions

Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com
Phone: 604-782-9342
Skype: tpnsupport
Website: http://www.tpnsolutions.com

Ask me about my new support plans which include a FREE copy of Virtualmin Pro!!!

Best Regards,
Peter Knowles | TPN Solutions
Email: pknowles@tpnsolutions.com | Skype: tpnassist
Sun, 04/19/2015 - 13:50
Diabolico
Diabolico's picture

I think the main problem here is the price. Right now you can buy cPanel for 12-14$ month for VPS and if you pay for one year some host offer 1-2 months discount what makes cost of cPanel less than 170-180$/year. Now add to all this how people got used to this panel the only way to change their mind is to offer something else with same or better quality and lover prices. Virtualmin unlimited is right now 349$ what is almost double the price of cPanel. Is pretty clear why your sale is so low, your selling schema is not good and you are stuck in a situation of a decade ago. This would be my idea (all full plans with some restrictions):

  • 1.) 5 domains for free w/o master/slave option, no reseller, script installer cant be added (no installer at all), no website creation module
  • 2.) 5 domains: 24$/year, no reseller
  • 3.) 10 domains: 40$/year, no reseller
  • 4.) 25 domains 80$/year, no reseller (or maybe yes, up to you)
  • 5a.) VPS: unlimited domains for 140$/year or 14$/month (168$/year)
  • 5b.) Dedi: unlimited domains for 250$/year or 25$/month (300$/year)
  • - only option 1 and 5 can be installed on dedicated, 2-4 only for VPS. Why option 1 - so people can test your software but all limitations will stay.
  • - installation for 1-4: 50$ with requirements/limitations, e.g. only on Centos # or Ubuntu #
  • - installation for 5: 80$ with everything set up
  • - custom logo for 2-5 and block same option for 1
  • - script installer: 5$/year with 25 scripts, 15$/year with 100 scripts, free for option 5.
  • - forum support with mods helping Joe, Eric, Jamie (can be payed with free license, option 2-4)
  • - ticket (premium) support: -?-$/month for option 4-5, everyone else have forum
  • - change how it looks this site and make yourself visible on social media (at least Twitter and Facebook)
  • - remove free pro license (e.g. one you give to schools), there is no need for this anymore
  • - no monthly payments for 2-4
  • - contact small host (plenty of them on LEB) and see if you can make a deal to offer Virtualmin (option 1) like some sort of one-click-install with OS (like it was with Kloxo)
  • - make a deal with same host to start selling your product
  • With all this you cover everyone needs and dont need to worry how to split domains over several servers. Option 5 is for someone who is selling hosting and it should be treated separately. Make addons for things where people earn money and sell them, e.g. payment module would be one of them. For forum mods take people who know what to do with your software and make their time worth. Cleanup and sort forum, and open to hosting/webservers in general, e.g. try to build up a community around Virtualmin/Webmin. Use some of the well know forum software (paid or free) so people will like to spend their time here as right now is ugly as hell. What you have now is you asking for unrealistic price (yes its way too high) and do not offer anything special what could make people buy pro version. Best thing is to offer your product at real and competitive price and leave to your potential customers to pick what they need and scale up how their requirements go up. Well this is it, if you take my advice i expect a big chocolate by mail (and i really mean big). :)

  • Edit: made few changes to reflect better the difference in plans
  • - I often come to the conclusion that my brain has too many tabs open. -
    Failing at desktop publishing & graphic design since 1994.

    Mon, 04/20/2015 - 02:42
    fakemoth
    fakemoth's picture

    Thanks for the effort and the research you put into this. But for me, cutting features, like the one with the logo, or the installers, or anything else it's a no-no; everyone at any price should benefit from a full fledged panel and this is the Virtualmin tradition, and the Open Source one that they should not part. Ever.

    Another problem here: there is nothing in the middle zone ~50 - 100 domains, and there are too many options for low level ones. And I think their slice is bigger in the small business area. And there really is no need for 5 domains without anything when they got the GPL.

    Also your 25 domains is almost hitting the current price for 100 domains. Going up with prices it is not the point of this thread.

    Le tme say it again. No one in the Virtualmin community will go with something crippled, and they will surely not pay extra, just to get unlimited domains, that they don't really need.

    Limiting the number of support tickets per month is a must though.

    Don't take the name of root in vain...

    Mon, 04/20/2015 - 03:50
    Diabolico
    Diabolico's picture

    Well what is best for you is not equal to what is best for Virtualmin. Anything what is asking for more than 25 domains is hosting by my point of view. Really, what is the real difference between 100 domains and unlimited? You get what you pay, free with almost everything for 5 domains what is enough for people who want to host their site or two, for family go pay 40$/year. Man i spend more money during one month on cigarettes and you want to say that is too much? Then you have next option with 25 domains what is decent number for a VPS and someone who is semi-pro in hosting. Last one if pure hosting service. There is no need for middle zone as once you pass 25 domains you can go and buy unlimited option what would be less than half what is the price we have now.

    People like you expect to have everything for free well nothing is free so i would be happy with near full package and 5 domains, for the rest pay for what you need. You just show to everyone how you dont care for Virtualmin because its clear from your post that you would like to sort everything how is best for you. I just dont get why you think you are entitled to ask anything for free.
    My idea have realistic prices and packages, based on offers from other control panels. I dont want to say this is the best solution but something similar should be implemented by Virtualmin if they think to start making some profit. If you dont want to pay i'm sure with model like this there will be a lot of others who will jump on same second Virtualmin change their selling schema.

    Last but not least, better to pay something then in 1-2 years read the notice how Virtualmin is gone because 3 people behind that got fed up with all the work for almost no money.

    P.S. Now thinking again my proposal is almost perfect.

    - I often come to the conclusion that my brain has too many tabs open. -
    Failing at desktop publishing & graphic design since 1994.

    Mon, 04/20/2015 - 04:35
    fakemoth
    fakemoth's picture

    I am more of a win-win man, but that's just me. Dude, I also smoke a lot and throw money to the four winds. But no weed. The title of the thread is "Everything's on sale! (AKA $99 Virtualmin and Cloudmin starting price)" so pardon us if we understood it's about cutting down prices... and some freebie for their clients.

    Nice talking pixel you are. Better clean that sh attitude with soap. I am a paying customer for both Virtualmin (and Cloudmin lately) since ~2010, an active member on the forum for +7 years, and using Virtualmin from it's beginnings, Webmin from 2000ish. And responsible for a substantial number of implementations in my city to other companies. Besides this I have dozens of various subscriptions to... well... a lot of stuff. Not to count the gaming/entertainment/graphics ones.

    That should go better with the taste. Writing to you here is also a story about "caring"... TMTW though.

    So why do you think, that being said, I am into a "free" "everything"? But I surely don't need "expensive" "all the domains I don't need, else get the sh crippled&limited edition".

    That's why I am all Linux/BSD (routers, workstations, notebook, servers, media centers, phones, storage devices, etc) because I hate the Windows market. Let me be clear how and why, on the financial side:

    -asking people for more money just not to cut random features and drastically limit the usability, scope or use from a "premium" package is bullshit - I think that's the correct word in English for cacat in ploaie;

    -asking people money for support and continuous development it's the path that brought all of us here, the way the IT market is supposed to grow, and the humanity to benefit technology.

    As for the ideological points, pardon me if I don't get into them with you. Here.

    Don't take the name of root in vain...

    Mon, 04/20/2015 - 06:46
    Diabolico
    Diabolico's picture

    Cry me a river you brave internet warrior, your post is full of nonsense. Selling model they have now with that prices maybe was good 10 years ago but not anymore. The prices went down and probably will go more in the future so all what i did is cut the offer to suit better for people who dont need so much from Virtualmin and still have option for one who are selling hosting. Who in their sick mind would pay right now for Virtualmin 10 when for 40$ more you have cPanel unlimited, What about DirectAdmin and probably Plesk who are even cheaper? What i said was win-win for everyone. Lower the prices, cut that free part to something more reasonable and make smaller packages for people who actually dont need 99 domains. For people who need there is unlimited in 2 version, for VPS and Dedi. By reading this topic it is clear that this model never worked, not now not in the past. So whatever you spent is not important, majority of the people just take GPL and start playing with hosting. On side note we are talking here what would be good for Virtualmin not how important you think you are, because face it - no one cares.

    P.S. If you really pay Virtualmin why so bitter on my idea, for you would be even cheaper then is now, Virtualmin would sell a lot more and people would have more choice to buy.

    - I often come to the conclusion that my brain has too many tabs open. -
    Failing at desktop publishing & graphic design since 1994.

    Mon, 04/20/2015 - 08:31
    fakemoth
    fakemoth's picture

    Aye I walk the forums smiting dudes with my mighty keyboard! Only one rule - I never act until I react to people keeping posting nonsense. What was the deal with freeloader stuff, not caring and so on? You a 12 years old or what? Just explained, not that kind. Than you ask me why don't I want to pay more. Doah, because I don't; and as everyone agrees something must be done with the prices to lower them down. Is there any logic in this? In a thread... come on just read the damn title...

    Anyway, check the thread - answered politely that it is a bad thing for Virtualmin to cut features; you trolled. And you know what? I think they agree, they will never cut anything.

    A renewal for Virtualmin 250 costs 130$, for 100 costs 89$ - to get exactly the same thing you want all of us to pay 250$ (300$), like abracadavra?

    And why do you think those plans exist? Maybe because there are a lot of people with that need? Excuse me if I am not and don't want to be titan of web hosting just like you.

    Simply put, you proposed something that would be cheaper on one side with various features missing (the entry level packages) but a much more expensive plan than it is now for the middle guys, whom you want to compete with giants of web hosting.

    Please take your corporate wanna be Jesus+Elvis+Trump+Steve Balmer/Jobs elsewhere.

    My position stands, in a nutshell for the Virtualmin team :

    • please do not cut features, in any package, as you will diminish the value and the (good) image of your products;
    • differentiate the plans by the number of domains, no matter how many cores/CPUs/servers;
    • differentiate the plans by the number of support tickets per year - this is essential, as people will restrain to bury you in trivial tasks, or will choose a better suited subscription;
    • spread them like you always did; if you can cut the prices, fine; but if you will pump them up you will loose customers, and you will also drive new ones away; maybe higher, to counteract any difficulties as a business; but NOT more than double as this guy wants!
    • maybe the best ideea - you have to work with someone who knows marketing and social media; hire someone good and they will pay off; also maybe that person can be a dedicated online sale guy, to take this burden off your shoulders. I guess you don't have someone now?
    • there is no word about you out there, only in specialised websites; no news, nothing in podcasts like the ones from Jupiter Broadcasting or TWit.TV... As I mentioned once, Webmin is the admins dirty little secret.
    • another good one: find angels, investors. Also why not crowdfunding? Find some design/video professionals or image builders to start a new fresh nice website and uber profi clips and so on.
    • the discounts for students and educational licenses, do not terminate those; you are educating your future customers;
    • please do not end GPL, here I don't think I have to mention how important it is for a lot of people;
    • people love you because you are NOT cPanel/Plesk/whatever.

    Don't take the name of root in vain...

    Mon, 04/20/2015 - 08:57
    fakemoth
    fakemoth's picture

    Aye I walk the forums smiting dudes with my mighty keyboard! Only one rule - I never act until I react to people keeping posting nonsense. What was the deal with freeloader stuff, not caring and so on? You a 12 years old or what? Just explained, not that kind. Than you ask me why don't I want to pay more. Doah, because I don't; and as everyone agrees something must be done with the prices to lower them down. Is there any logic in this? In a thread... come on just read the damn title...

    Anyway, check the thread - answered politely that it is a bad thing for Virtualmin to cut features; you trolled. And you know what? I think they agree, they will never cut anything.

    A renewal for Virtualmin 250 costs 130$, for 100 costs 89$ - to get exactly the same thing you want all of us to pay 250$ (300$), like abracadavra?

    And why do you think those plans exist? Maybe because there are a lot of people with that need? Excuse me if I am not and don't want to be a titan of web hosting just like you.

    Simply put, you proposed something that would be cheaper on one side with various features missing (the entry level packages) but a much more expensive plan than it is now for the middle guys, whom you want to compete with giants of web hosting.

    Please take your corporate wanna be Jesus+Elvis+Trump+Steve Balmer/Jobs elsewhere.

    My position stands, in a nutshell for the Virtualmin team :

    • please do not cut features, in any package, as you will diminish the value and the (good) image of your products;
    • differentiate the plans by the number of domains, no matter how many cores/CPUs/servers;
    • differentiate the plans by the number of support tickets per year - this is essential, as people will restrain to bury you in trivial tasks, or will choose a better suited subscription;
    • spread them like you always did; if you can cut the prices, fine; but if you will pump them up you will loose customers, and you will also drive new ones away; maybe higher, to counteract any difficulties as a business; but NOT more than double as this guy wants!
    • maybe the best idea - you have to work with someone who knows marketing and social media; hire someone good and they will pay off; also maybe that person can be a dedicated online sale guy, to take this burden off your shoulders. I guess you don't have someone now?
    • there is no word about you out there, only in specialized websites; no news, nothing in pod casts like the ones from Jupiter Broadcasting or TWit.TV... As I mentioned once, Webmin is the admins dirty little secret.
    • another good one: find angels, investors. Also why not crowd funding? Find some design/video professionals or image builders to start a new fresh nice website and uber profi clips and so on.
    • the discounts for students and educational licenses, do not terminate those; you are educating your future customers;
    • please do not end GPL, here I don't think I have to mention how important it is for a lot of people;
    • people love you because you are NOT cPanel/Plesk/whatever; you have your own niche in the SMB area, don't loose that; grab it harder, than aim higher.

    Don't take the name of root in vain...

    Topic locked