Hosting with Cloudmin/Virtualmin/Webmin

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#1 Sun, 12/06/2009 - 15:50
mixmax

Hosting with Cloudmin/Virtualmin/Webmin

I'm trying to wrap my brain around the question of implementing hosting services with Cloudmin, Virtualmin, and Webmin. Basically, I'm trying to figure out a migration from HSphere to something else (since it seems that Parallels is incapable of maintaining either HSphere or Plesk these days).

What I want is a platform that will leverage servers as black boxes ultimately and that has led me to Cloudmin and the possibility of deploying a cloud. The goals are to setup a test cloud as a proof of concept at first. Initially, only virtual servers would be offered (that is, traditional virtual web servers managed by Virtualmin). What we have now is an HSphere cluster deployed across 10 servers (web, mail, dns, etc. are all distributed). Therefore, I'm looking to first setup a system that will just replace what we have now and then eventually migrate to virtualization for flexibility, etc.

I've been digesting whatever documentation I can find here. Installed a VM on my notebook to get a better idea of how Virtualmin and Webmin are related (since I had suspected that the online demo was fairly locked down and, hence, didn't provide the whole picture). The conclusion I have reached is this: Webmin runs on all managed servers and is the control panel (of sorts) for the box owner...it's a layer of management to which there is no comparison really in cPanel, Plesk, HSphere, LXAdmin, etc., because all of those platforms integrate everything into what we could compare with Virtualmin. Is this correct?

So that means in a hosting service environment customers would be granted access to a Virtualmin account in order to manage their resources, similar to how an account is created for a customer in cPanel (or whatever). And then Usermin, could be offered to let a customer's end users change their password (or check their mail without using another client).

Now, in looking at Virtualmin, I see the "Cluster" management area in the menu tree. Is the idea that you would deploy Virtualmin on a single master server, Webmin on all nodes, and then configure/control the lot of nodes from the single Virtualmin server? Or do you deploy Virtualmin on all servers but then you can configure one master from which you would control the whole lot? This is my first point of confusion (I think). I mean, doesn't Virtualmin have to be configured on ALL servers where you are configuring customer accounts? In HSphere, everyone logs into the single control panel and everything is managed by the single control panel so that's probably why I'm finding this setup a bit foreign. Obivously, in Plesk (without Plesk Expand) or cPanel customers login to the single server that hosts ALL of their services.

My interpretation is that Cloudmin kindof implements what the HSphere control panel does (a single place to manage all physical and logical servers and accounts) but takes it a step further with virtualization support. Is this right?

Keep in mind that I will be building this entire setup from scratch. Ideally, I would like one control panel from which to manage all systems. I would also like the ability to seamlessly introduce virtualization down the road with as much ease as possible. I'm thinking that Cloudmin will help me accomplish all of my goals except for one: the distribution of services across hardware (that is, centralized mail, dns, db, to service all of the web hosts), which is the current HSphere setup--but I think (!) that even this can be accomplished with server templates (or is account templates?).

Fianlly, how does WHMCS (billing) fit in for this setup? Do we configure the Cloudmin module on it or the Virtualmin Pro module? Perhaps the cloudmin module replaces the virtualmin module?

Sun, 12/06/2009 - 18:15
ronald
ronald's picture

roughly I would say
webmin can be deployed on each box (physical and vps) to administer the server or users account, by the master admin (full access) and client (client space access).

Virtualmin is a webmin module and can be deployed on each box (physical and vps) to create and manage virtual domains, subdomains etc.
Usermn is for email + whatever access to webmin modules you grant
cloudmin manages vps instances on its own host machine and others. You'll need this only on one server. A client can use it to reboot (re-image and so on) his vps

a client on shared hosting logs into webmin and controls his account, creates domains etc. together with the virtualmin and usermin module.

as for whmcs, I haven't tested it yet but I guess you need both modules. 1 to create accounts for shared hosting and the other to create VPS instances. I'll install the cloudmin module later this week.
I did notice you can create virtual servers through the cloudmin module on any registered host system and vps instance as if you were using virtualmin.

I installed cloudmin today so its new to me as well and haven't discovered all features yet.

The Webmin's cluster module has potential but I haven't gotten it to the point I can use it for failover and such. It's nice to synchronise modules, users etc between systems though

Sun, 12/06/2009 - 23:05 (Reply to #2)
mixmax

Thanks that helps.

So in other words, you do need Virtualmin on all hosts where clients will have virtual web server accounts since that module enables all of the virtual domain functionality. Therefore, I'm thinking that the Virtualmin Cluster feature is a holdover then from pre-Cloudmin days (heh, what is that like a month or two ago?) It would make sense (to me at least) that that cluster management function be pushed into Cloudmin (that is, removed from Virtualmin) so that the entire cluster is managed from there.

I guess I just need to push forward with a Cloudmin deployment to figure this all out. Perhaps I'll also go ahead and renew the lease on my WHMCS deployment which has been unused since we aborted an LXAdmin deployment at the beginning of the year.

Mon, 12/07/2009 - 01:49
ronald
ronald's picture

Virtualmin makes it very practical for a client to create and handle his domains etc. It can be done with webmin, but it can be done manually too ;) so virtualmin gpl makes sense, virtualmin pro would be ideal

the cluster module is a webmin module not virtualmin, to manage and synchronise several servers, and was there when I started using it 2 years ago.

whmcs has improved a lot. v4.1.2 is out now and its pretty good..

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