Make cloning feature available to regular Webmin users

Sometimes waiting for the Virtualmin issues to be fixed gets really frustrating. For example, even though the https://virtualmin.com/node/39673 (Make "Limits and Validation" feature available to Webmin users) is marked fixed, regular Webmin users still can not validate their domain names. So please Jamie I am asking again do not mark things until they are really marked and rolled out. The issue queue should be for users, not for developers who mark things because they think they fixed it on their end. The things should be marked when they are really rolled out to public.

And like that feature, I'd like to raise another question: Why regular Webmin users can't clone their domain names? Why everything is left to root user when in fact using root user represents a security issue! Why regular Webmin users (And just to save your and my time, knowing you like asking questions to which answers are quite clear: Yes, those who have their Webmin UI login) are so limited in what they can do?! Why, for what purposes, Virtualmin has so many cool features like validation, moving and cloning the websites if Webmin users can not use them?! Why only root user has to enjoy those features?!

And why do we have to beg for every single domain-related feature to be made available for Webmin users?! Why you can't finally understand that if it's ok for you to hide more important configuration settings, the domain-related FUNCTIONS must be available for Webmin users.

I mean, it is quite clear that if a Webmin user can create a domain name, then s/he should be able to edit, backup, move, clone, validate it and whatever else fuck s/he wants to do with it.

Sorry, but I am really tired of begging these features from you, Jamie. I've been considering Virtualizer since long and I am afraid if you don't give these funtions to regular Webmin users then we have no other choice to walk away from many years of our love to Virtualmin. Enough is enough, my friend!

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Cloning is available to domain owners, if they have permission to create sub-servers though.

Also, the validation feature is available in the 5.05 release - however, it has to be enabled at System Settings -> Virtualmin Configuration -> User interface settings (because many admins have in the past requested that this NOT be visible to domain owners by default).

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for explanations and sorry for being too harsh on you. I know how much you have on your plate, it just sometimes really gets frustrating. Now back to the additional information you provided.

Cloning is available to domain owners, if they have permission to create sub-servers though.

It was not explained or documented anywhere, so good to know.

However just think how it is not comfortable for domain owners being unable to clone their main domain. Should we now force our customers to place all your domains as sub-servers so they would be able to clone them? But then every domain owner should have one main domain and what to do with them? There will be lot's of confusions where is what and what can be done with what. Wouldn't be much easier if you opened all the domain-related FUNCTIONS to domain owners?

Also, the validation feature is available in the 5.05 release - however, it has to be enabled at System Settings -> Virtualmin Configuration -> User interface settings.

Good progress! Just let Ilya know that the newly rolled out feature is missing its own icon in the UI.

because many admins have in the past requested that this NOT be visible to domain owners by default.

Probably those admins are control-freak as being able to validate your domain name to see what might be wrong with it is so natural. It helps to unload this kind of simple things off the shoulders of admins, especially in webhosting business. Those control-freak types of admins can torture themselves receiving tons of customer requests and performing routine tasks for them, however as *min developer you should not tend to hide power of your product from end-users. Let them know how Webmin/Virtualmin is beuitiful by giving as much as can be given. To me only CONFIGURATION part should be hidden from the end-users and all the domain-related FUNCTIONS (or actions) should be given to them.

And generally this kind of features ideally should be options to configure as you can't keep satisfying contraversial requests of various *min admins. Instead, let them choose in Webmin/Virtualmin configuration page what should be available for their end-users and what should not. We are a hosting company and we would like to off-load everything that we can to our customers and their devlopers/admins. Depriving them from being able to validate, clone or do some other actions to their domains is just not productive. So try to make the lives of hosting vendors easier for *min products to become the industry standard as cPanel. Limiting or hiding useful features pointing to some control-freak admins is really not right way to follow.

Ok, I've created a new issue for Ilia on https://virtualmin.com/node/44874, so now after we got validation finally working, can we concentrate on cloning.

I don't know why it's not possible for domain owners to clone their main domain, most probably for the same reasons they can not delete them. I can see there could be some legitimate reasons for not giving deletion feature, especially when dealing with reseller accounts, but on the other hand cloning is different than deletion, so should be available to all domains.

So can you please either:

  1. Decouple cloning feature from whatever complicated deeps it is in currently and make available for ALL the domains the domain-owners might have, including their main domains.

  2. If it is not possible then, so be it, can you at least hide the main domains from their UIs, so that they manage only subdomains? This might sound crazy, but the use-case scenario is:

  • A hosting vendor creates the main domain for the customer.
  • Customer logs into his/her account and is happy to have all the domain-related functions - s/he can do to his/her domains (sub-domains in fact) everything, including cloning any domains.

On a second thought, hiding the main domain won't work because, in that case, domain-owners won't' be able to manage their mail, FTP, user accounts.

The main reason that a domain owner cannot clone their top-level domain is that the clone would also be a new top-level domain. Presumably what you'd like is for the clone to become a new sub-server that the user could make changes to for testing purposes?

The main reason that a domain owner cannot clone their top-level domain is that the clone would also be a new top-level domain. Presumably what you'd like is for the clone to become a new sub-server that the user could make changes to for testing purposes?

Perfectly put! Let the top-level domain be clonable as a sub-server of its own. Our purpose was not make them clone another top-level domain, but to make sense of the available features and options. Users should be able to clone their domains into development, testing, stage and various versions of their websites, main (top-level) or sub doesn't matter.

This was initiated in the end of 2016, soon we'll be entering 2019. Makes me sad this kind of simple requests are often time ignored around here. Let website owners finally start cloning their websites. Let it be sub-domains, but not giving them this feature is not right.

The main reason that a domain owner cannot clone their top-level domain is that the clone would also be a new top-level domain. Presumably what you'd like is for the clone to become a new sub-server that the user could make changes to for testing purposes?
Perfectly put! Let the top-level domain be clonable as a sub-server of its own. Our purpose was not make them clone another top-level domain, but to make sense of the available features and options. Users should be able to clone their domains into development, testing, stage and various versions of their websites, main (top-level) or sub doesn't matter.
Assigned: Unassigned ยป

I must have forgotten about this request - it seems do-able, although presumably you'd just want to clone the web content and databases and not mailboxes?

Yep, the website owners often time just want to have development and testing stages, so no mail would interest them, but ability just to clone their websites.